Beautiful Books: A conversation with the author and artist behind The Siren in the Twelfth House

A conversation with Victoria Mbabazi and Isabella Fassler
Transcribed by Ryanne Kap and Alanna Campbell

Victoria Mbabazi: I would like to point out that Ryanne Kap and Alanna Campbell are transcribing for us and they are my and Isabella’s sister signs. And Isabella and I are water signs [Isabella Fassler is a Scorpio and Victoria Mbabazi is a Pisces]. And they are earth signs [Alanna is a Taurus and Ryanne is a Virgo]. So they’re like our grounding.

Isabella Fassler: That’s so beautiful, I had no idea.

VM: Your art’s all over the apartment. Alanna can attest to that. It’s like a little shrine to you in our house.

IF: That’s where I’ll hold my funeral if I ever just pass away one day.

VM: I’ll make sure to write that down.

IF: It needs to be said somewhere out there in the universe.

VM: I wanted to know if you had favourite book covers.

IF: I can’t choose one, I would need to choose one in every genre. I’m really annoying like that, I don’t have favourites.

VM: You don’t have favourite things?

IF: No.

VM: I also have a really hard time having favourite things.

IF: Thank god, because I always feel like a really annoying person and I’m like “I don’t fucking know, don’t ask me.”

VM: It just depends on the day.

IF: I feel like I should have said my favourite book cover is our book cover.

VM: That makes the most sense to say, but I’m glad that you went with the truth.

IF: Rewind and take it back. Ours is definitely the best.

VM: I was going to ask what your favourite piece of yours is. And I don’t want you to say our book cover.

IF: I don’t know if I would consider it my favourite piece, but it was a piece I did [at Sheridan] as part of my fourth year thesis, and it was kind of a throwaway piece in oil pastels. It was a breakthrough of everything I had done previously and I was like, “I don’t care what I’m doing here, I’m just drawing random shapes and textures.” I think since then I’ve been trying to just refine that in a way.

VM: Like working with oil pastels?

IF: Not specifically because I’ve stopped working with oil pastels, but the combination of colour and movement that came from that piece. I was like, “I like these elements and I want to bring this into more things.” Like lots of movement and bolder colours and contrasts and letting things feel more flowy. I think that piece in particular has a special [place] in my heart because it was a breakthrough moment in my own art.

VM: I get that. It was like the first time you knew what you were going to do.

IF: In a way yeah, because it was so random and it blew my mind. It was so fun and everything before, I hadn’t felt such a strong connection to. I was like, “Wow that was cool, this is what I want to continue to do.”

IF: Do you feel like you have a specific voice that you want to encompass?

VM: I know that for me, writing is very emotional. I don’t feel that attached to genre or how I write. I do think I have a specific style. I would say you have a style. For me, I don’t feel attached to how I write, I feel like the way I am is how I write. So however I am in that moment is how I will be writing. And if I feel differently from what I wrote before, that’s okay. But right now I’m not really a fan of how I’m writing.

IF: That’s really interesting, are you comparing it to your previous works though? Or are you just not liking how it is sounding to you?

VM: I think it’s more so that I feel like I’m typically yearnful, you know. I’m always like, in love. And now I don’t care about anything. So I feel very bitchy. And I like writing bitchily. But it’s less empathetic.

IF: It doesn’t have to be nice but it is really interesting because we’re kind of opposite ends. You’re emotionally kind of growing or changing but I’m just kind of like “it is what it is.”

VM: So for you, what are you expressing then, when you’re drawing?

IF: I think I want to express the same thing you want to express, to be able to create something that people can look at and feel some type of way about and feel connected or drawn to it. I want to make it fun and interesting  but during the process, I’m not really having the best time. I’m not having fun.

VM: Why aren’t you having fun?

IF: This is why I think I’m a bad artist. I get a project and I’m like “okay cool” but then I kind of hate doing it. But then it’s done and I’m really excited and happy about it.

VM: Can I ask you about the process of making my cover and what that was like for you?

IF: Well this one was really interesting because when you messaged me, you were kind of like, “I just want you to do whatever. I have this idea of a mermaid/siren on a house, kind of Ariel-esque.” I’m like, “Set and done, I can do this!” But at the same time I know your vibe too and I was like, “I need a moodboard, what’s the colours and vibe of your book?” I had this solid idea and I wanted to see how far I could break apart from it. I think that’s my process for most things. If you have a solid idea, I’ll do it, but then I’ll try and see if there’s something else that will spark our interest. Your moodboard really helped me get ideas for your book.

VM: I wanted to do a bit of both. I wanted to share my thoughts, but also maybe my thoughts don’t matter.

IF: Oh but your thoughts very much do matter. Especially because this is your book about all of your shit. So much of you is in this. I wanted to make sure that those two go hand in hand.

VM: In my mind, I was telling you to do whatever you want [because] I’m not an artist [and] I’m not an illustrator. All I know is that I literally can’t draw for shit, my imagination doesn’t work that way. So I didn’t want to limit what could be. I was so happy that you didn’t do what I wanted. Like imagine! It was so concrete in my head what I imagined, and when you showed me all of your proofs, I was like obviously this was the cover I wanted, why would I want anyone else.

IF: I have your mood board in front of me and the words you put down are “nighttime, Ariel more relaxed or devastated, with a house protruding from water.” These words “devastated” and “protrude” feel like sharp words, things that feel darker, something that is very much going away from serene and into this world of whimsy, but the dark side of it. But we still wanted flow, we wanted a nice aesthetic of magicalness. Just those words influenced how I drew the siren because I wanted her feeling a little dangerous in this chaos, but feeling okay in a way.

VM: I like that you thought about how my words looked and not what I was saying. Then you came up with the cover that made the most sense. I don’t always think about how my words feel because I’m too busy thinking about what they mean and you were thinking about how the words felt, and I think that’s really cool.

IF: That’s why I’m so grateful you trusted me with this. Even reading it I absolutely adored it. I was highlighting everything.

VM: Oh really?

IF: I’m obsessed. From seeing what you told me about your book, to then finally being able to read it, I was like, “Okay, I can see your vision for it and how that influenced what you were then saying to me.” I thought it was nice to have that look back.

VM: The comet going through the house reminded me of a poem in the book. I think the comet only appears once. It’s like a fake hopeful poem so I like that it’s going through the house. I don’t know if anyone’s going to think that hard about it, but I will think about how that piece of hope split the house in half and that makes me really happy.

IF: That’s why it feels so cohesive because we both just love so much and love things so much.

VM: Yes, we love so much and that’s why we can’t pick favourite things. That’s the issue.

IF: Is it? Yes. Is it an issue? It’s an issue.

VM: It’s not an issue. I was just saying it is but it isn’t. Do you have any icks when it comes to art or art styles?

IF: I’m sure I do. I’m really sure I do, but nothing is coming to me right now. Do you have “icks” in poetry?

VM: When their voice isn’t unique to them. I do believe in influence, we’re all inspired, but I don’t like when someone wants to be someone else and I don’t like when that’s obvious to me because I find it boring. I don’t like when a poem feels like an exercise. I don’t like when a poem feels studious, like work, or academic, before it feels like something you’re trying to tell me.

IF: That’s a really good “ick.”

VM: Yeah. I’m proud of it. I’m proud of my “icks.”

IF: When did you start writing The Siren in the Twelfth House? Did you just start collecting or did you write with the intention of writing this book?

VM: I think it’s more clear to me now after therapy what happened. I was thinking about houses really violently. Like, all of them collapsing. At first, I blamed my ex-girlfriend because she lived in my house and she was the worst. And then I blamed myself, because I was upset with myself when I moved and different aspects of my family and then I realized I was uncomfortable anyway, that I was the discomfort in the house. You know, when people are like you’re the bad energy in the room. It had become me. Then I remember I had these big feelings for this girl, and she was haunting my house because she would come over and when we stopped talking, I would think about her in my house. And that’s the first place I go to. “I can’t stop thinking about you, it’s like you live with me because you live in my head.” So I would want to break the walls around me. And that’s kind of how the book started. I also wanted the zodiac signs to function like Tumblr posts, and also be how the muses are in Hercules. So the zodiac signs are muses and they say what I’m thinking throughout the book. They’re saying everybody should break up or everyone should stay together, everyone should break up or everyone should get married. These are my feelings.

IF: I was curious why the head into astrology, or if that was something that you were just connected to and this was just a marriage of the two.

VM: The first time I thought about myself as a person, or thought about myself at all, my mom told me I was a Pisces. She was like that means you exist, you’re a fish. That’s the first time I wondered what I was. As a kid you really stick with that, so I was obsessed with astrology because I thought when I’m meeting someone, I’m getting a sense of who they are. The more I learned about astrology, the more it became easy to learn about people by talking about it. I feel like I come off really friendly, but I’m extremely socially awkward, I feel, in my head. But because people like astrology it’s easier to talk if I say “oh what’s your sign” and they say what they are and I can go “oh this sign is like this.” I used to sit in my room and read about every sign because I was like this is how I know what people are and what being a person is.

IF: No, that is so beautiful because I think all of us as human beings are just trying to connect with people and that’s why you were like “I don’t know how I can connect with a person, but I have this thing.” And we all know at least our zodiac sign.

VM: I have a variation of your question, but what’s the first time you knew you were an artist? Is it the first time you wished to be an artist or was that a different time?

IF: So I guess, growing up I always it was something I always drawn to (ha, ha). I had sketchbooks, my mom would give me how-to-draw books. My grandma was the only artist in the family, and every time I saw her she would show me her drawings. It was a very low-key part of my life growing up, but when I got into high school I moved away to Argentina. I was just studying to graduate, I had no thought of my future. The only thing that stayed consistent was knowing how to draw. When I finally graduated high school, I knew I couldn’t stay there because I felt I had no prospects. I’d just been studying these things that weren’t interesting to me. My mom was like, “What do you like?” And I was like, “I like to draw,” and she said “Pick a school and go!” So it kind of just fell into my lap how I became an artist, but in a way I didn’t have a choice.

When I moved, I felt that my only way forward was art. I came back to Canada, and Sheridan is close to where we lived before so I had family around, it felt natural to come back to after some time. I’ve stuck around since then. That’s the only reason why I got into art, because it was something that stuck with me throughout my life. Once I got into Sheridan, I started with the certificate and diploma right off the bat, entry level art programs. My teacher in art fundies [fundamentals] was sitting with me and we were working in class and he said, “What are you doing after this year and I said, “I don’t know, I have no plans.” Most people were trying to get into animation but I didn’t know about illustration. And he said, “Have you considered illustration?” and I said “No sir, I have not,” and he said, “You should go to the presentation of the program.” I went and I was like, “Oh this feels more inclined to what I’m like.” After speaking to him I was like, “Oh, I can become an artist.” So that was the trajectory, question marks the whole way.

VM: I love that art, for you, was a form of survival. I feel like I can really empathize with that with my writing. It’s also why I think about houses a lot. What your mom said to you, Alanna said something similar to me about moving [to New York]. I remember we were sitting on the GO train and I was like, “I really don’t know what I’m going to do next, I can’t go to grad school, I’m not an academic,” and she was like, “why don’t you just go to New York? You can study.” I didn’t really like the idea of the MFA programs in Canada, I didn’t know if I was the kind of writer they would accept. She was like, “you can just go [to New York].” I said okay. I made my application that day, and I emailed my professors that day.

IF: That really happened fast for you.

VM: I was always a writer. It was always a way for me to have an outlet to speak. When I was younger I was in a band with my family. My dad wanted my sister to sing and he wouldn’t let me sing unless I wrote the songs. So I was nine and I started writing songs and he was like, “Wait this is actually good.” I always really craved his approval because he was a musician. He escaped the Rwandan genocide through his music by getting into Berkeley College of Music. So his approval on my artistic activities was really important to me. I would start writing music so I could get his attention. It was a way for me to be like, look at me, look at me!

IF: Growing up [parents] are kind of like gods. It’s like, “What can I do to appease you so that you like me for me, not just because I’m doing what you’re saying?”

VM: I have one last question for you. What is your relationship to your sun sign?

IF: Okay, I won’t say my entire birth chart but i think it’s important to tell you at least that I’m a triple Scorpio.

VM: I’m a triple Pisces!

IF: Stop!

VM: I love that. You have a Scorpio stellium?

IF: Yeah.

VM: I’m gonna need your chart later.

IF: Honestly! Do you feel like you relate to your sign?

VM: I think it’s on brand for me to be a Pisces. I think because lately I’ve been acting out, my Aries moon makes a lot of sense.